Comments on: Leaving West Hartford? http://www.amybergquist.com/blog/2009/02/09/leaving-west-hartford/ News and views about real estate in Greater Hartford Thu, 09 Feb 2012 18:10:57 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Amy http://www.amybergquist.com/blog/2009/02/09/leaving-west-hartford/#comment-421 Amy Tue, 17 Feb 2009 02:11:53 +0000 http://www.amybergquist.com/blog/?p=1922#comment-421 You're right, Bob, Hartford does receive a lot help from the State. The <a href="http://www.hartford.gov/budget/Budget08_09/Revenue_Estimates_0809.pdf" rel="nofollow">adopted budget for 2008-2009</a> shows $247 million of the $547 million total revenue (45.2%) is expected to come from "Intergovernmental Revenues." The standard argument that the City puts forth to justify the aid, and in fact lobby for more, is that a large percentage of Hartford's land is exempt from local taxation. The City cannot tax government property, educational institutions, hospitals, religious institutions or charitable organizations, among other exempted classes. This recent press release states that <a href="http://www.hartford.gov/news/PR020208HartfordGrandListIncreasesSlightly.pdf" rel="nofollow">46% of the Hartford Grand List is tax exempt</a>. Another complicating factor is that Hartford is in the process of both <a href="http://www.hartford.gov/assessor/Revaluation%20Info/RevaluationPhase-InDescription.pdf" rel="nofollow">phasing-in a new assessment and reversing a assessment surcharge</a> that is in place on non-residential property. The likely result will be a shift in the tax burden from businesses to homeowners, though it will hopefully also encourage business growth. Those are the facts, but the meat of the question is about fairness. And fairness is often a very subjective quality. The West End is not representative of Hartford as a whole. Perhaps the reason the taxes seem unfairly low is that there is a single tax calculation used throughout the city. What would be the impact of bringing Hartford taxes up to parity with other towns? Much of the housing stock in Hartford is multifamily residential, so rents would have to go up for all the tenants. From a socio-economic point of view, Hartford is a much less affluent town than its neighbors. Would the residents be able to afford higher rent (which would in theory now be comparable to West Hartford rent)? Would it force residents into government assistance? Would it force residents to move to other towns? You’re right, Bob, Hartford does receive a lot help from the State. The adopted budget for 2008-2009 shows $247 million of the $547 million total revenue (45.2%) is expected to come from “Intergovernmental Revenues.”

The standard argument that the City puts forth to justify the aid, and in fact lobby for more, is that a large percentage of Hartford’s land is exempt from local taxation. The City cannot tax government property, educational institutions, hospitals, religious institutions or charitable organizations, among other exempted classes. This recent press release states that 46% of the Hartford Grand List is tax exempt.

Another complicating factor is that Hartford is in the process of both phasing-in a new assessment and reversing a assessment surcharge that is in place on non-residential property. The likely result will be a shift in the tax burden from businesses to homeowners, though it will hopefully also encourage business growth.

Those are the facts, but the meat of the question is about fairness. And fairness is often a very subjective quality.

The West End is not representative of Hartford as a whole. Perhaps the reason the taxes seem unfairly low is that there is a single tax calculation used throughout the city.

What would be the impact of bringing Hartford taxes up to parity with other towns? Much of the housing stock in Hartford is multifamily residential, so rents would have to go up for all the tenants. From a socio-economic point of view, Hartford is a much less affluent town than its neighbors. Would the residents be able to afford higher rent (which would in theory now be comparable to West Hartford rent)? Would it force residents into government assistance? Would it force residents to move to other towns?

]]> By: Bob http://www.amybergquist.com/blog/2009/02/09/leaving-west-hartford/#comment-420 Bob Mon, 16 Feb 2009 16:34:38 +0000 http://www.amybergquist.com/blog/?p=1922#comment-420 This is a little off topic but Amy, your comment about Hartford's (specifically the West End's) property taxes got me thinking. My understanding is that the City of Hartford receives a much larger proportion of it's operating income from the State (vs. WH or other towns). If this is true then CT tax payers outside of Hartford are paying to keep Hartford's taxes artifically low. If Amy's house would pay almost twice in WH or "the valley" how is that equitable? I'm not saying Hartford shouldn't receive a higher proportion of state dollars than other towns but should it receive what seems like an amount to keep taxes significantly lower than other towns (especially when they offer more service to its residents)? This is a little off topic but Amy, your comment about Hartford’s (specifically the West End’s) property taxes got me thinking. My understanding is that the City of Hartford receives a much larger proportion of it’s operating income from the State (vs. WH or other towns). If this is true then CT tax payers outside of Hartford are paying to keep Hartford’s taxes artifically low. If Amy’s house would pay almost twice in WH or “the valley” how is that equitable? I’m not saying Hartford shouldn’t receive a higher proportion of state dollars than other towns but should it receive what seems like an amount to keep taxes significantly lower than other towns (especially when they offer more service to its residents)?

]]> By: sujal http://www.amybergquist.com/blog/2009/02/09/leaving-west-hartford/#comment-419 sujal Tue, 10 Feb 2009 02:10:47 +0000 http://www.amybergquist.com/blog/?p=1922#comment-419 yeah, that's basically what I was trying to say, sorry. I mean, if it's an exodus, that will show up pretty quickly. If it's a shuffle, then whatevs. ;-) Sujal yeah, that’s basically what I was trying to say, sorry. I mean, if it’s an exodus, that will show up pretty quickly. If it’s a shuffle, then whatevs. ;-)

Sujal

]]> By: Amy http://www.amybergquist.com/blog/2009/02/09/leaving-west-hartford/#comment-418 Amy Tue, 10 Feb 2009 02:01:06 +0000 http://www.amybergquist.com/blog/?p=1922#comment-418 I'm sure neighboring towns are seeing West Hartford people too. But I would also argue that West Hartford is seeing people from neighboring towns (say, The Valley) that also have very high taxes, may not want to drive so far, and may actually want a smaller house (as if!). People just shuffle around based on their current needs. I’m sure neighboring towns are seeing West Hartford people too. But I would also argue that West Hartford is seeing people from neighboring towns (say, The Valley) that also have very high taxes, may not want to drive so far, and may actually want a smaller house (as if!). People just shuffle around based on their current needs.

]]> By: sujal http://www.amybergquist.com/blog/2009/02/09/leaving-west-hartford/#comment-417 sujal Tue, 10 Feb 2009 01:52:01 +0000 http://www.amybergquist.com/blog/?p=1922#comment-417 ok, that makes sense. Will be interesting to see how this plays out over the next few years. Taxes are high in West Hartford, especially compared to some of our immediate neighbors. For what it's worth, as one of the links you've got up there, I've never argued against that. My concern is singular, which is that the debate is usually held dishonestly. Between the name calling and general meanness (for lack of a better term), I just don't care anymore. Certainly, the debate isn't constructive enough to enact real solutions. So, we're going to need to see if people leave. Perhaps then we can actually start on solutions. Sujal ok, that makes sense.

Will be interesting to see how this plays out over the next few years. Taxes are high in West Hartford, especially compared to some of our immediate neighbors. For what it’s worth, as one of the links you’ve got up there, I’ve never argued against that. My concern is singular, which is that the debate is usually held dishonestly. Between the name calling and general meanness (for lack of a better term), I just don’t care anymore.

Certainly, the debate isn’t constructive enough to enact real solutions. So, we’re going to need to see if people leave. Perhaps then we can actually start on solutions.

Sujal

]]> By: Amy http://www.amybergquist.com/blog/2009/02/09/leaving-west-hartford/#comment-416 Amy Tue, 10 Feb 2009 01:27:29 +0000 http://www.amybergquist.com/blog/?p=1922#comment-416 Based on all of the open houses I've run in the West End, I've never seen this before. Sure, I'll have a few people/families here and there that stop in, but nothing like I saw yesterday. Hartford and West Hartford do have very different mill rates, 68.34 and 36.97 respectively. The difference is that Hartford taxes based on 38% of the assessment value versus 70% used in West Hartford and most of the towns in the state. Based on all of the open houses I’ve run in the West End, I’ve never seen this before. Sure, I’ll have a few people/families here and there that stop in, but nothing like I saw yesterday.

Hartford and West Hartford do have very different mill rates, 68.34 and 36.97 respectively. The difference is that Hartford taxes based on 38% of the assessment value versus 70% used in West Hartford and most of the towns in the state.

]]> By: sujal http://www.amybergquist.com/blog/2009/02/09/leaving-west-hartford/#comment-415 sujal Tue, 10 Feb 2009 01:11:21 +0000 http://www.amybergquist.com/blog/?p=1922#comment-415 How abnormal is this? The tax situation is hardly a new one, at least in terms of there being a disparity between WH and Hartford. We had West End homes on our list when we were looking, too, though I didn't want to live that far away from the center. How did you get the increase in your taxes, by the way, between Hartford and West Hartford? I thought the mill rate in Hartford was nearly 20 points higher? How abnormal is this? The tax situation is hardly a new one, at least in terms of there being a disparity between WH and Hartford. We had West End homes on our list when we were looking, too, though I didn’t want to live that far away from the center.

How did you get the increase in your taxes, by the way, between Hartford and West Hartford? I thought the mill rate in Hartford was nearly 20 points higher?

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